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	Comments on: own your expertise &#8211; a conference for women developers	</title>
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		<title>
		By: fred r		</title>
		<link>https://www.selikoff.net/2014/09/14/expertise-conference-for-women-developers/comment-page-1/#comment-112193</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fred r]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.selikoff.net/?p=5273#comment-112193</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot; they d[on&#039;t]...code for fun.&quot; This is a dumb question. Nobody expects a surgeon to perform appendectomies for fun, or lawyers to file lawsuits for fun.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; they d[on&#8217;t]&#8230;code for fun.&#8221; This is a dumb question. Nobody expects a surgeon to perform appendectomies for fun, or lawyers to file lawsuits for fun.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ryan McGuire		</title>
		<link>https://www.selikoff.net/2014/09/14/expertise-conference-for-women-developers/comment-page-1/#comment-112106</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan McGuire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.selikoff.net/?p=5273#comment-112106</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Being quieter and not feeling comfortable trying to talk over other people is not just a question of gender.  We have a few people, both men and women, who raise their hand to talk.  Even that may be more than some valued contributors are prepared to do.  

On the one hand, at a certain level everyone is expected to be able to speak for themselves and not require hand-holding.  On the other, the manager/supervisor/technical lead/moderator can easily create an environment where even the most shy and introverted person feels comfortable sharing their opinions.  e.g. When a new question or subject is brought up, go around the group and give everyone 15 uninterrupted seconds to give their opinion.  Obviously that one hint isn&#039;t the full extent of how to run a meeting, but I hope you see what I&#039;m saying.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being quieter and not feeling comfortable trying to talk over other people is not just a question of gender.  We have a few people, both men and women, who raise their hand to talk.  Even that may be more than some valued contributors are prepared to do.  </p>
<p>On the one hand, at a certain level everyone is expected to be able to speak for themselves and not require hand-holding.  On the other, the manager/supervisor/technical lead/moderator can easily create an environment where even the most shy and introverted person feels comfortable sharing their opinions.  e.g. When a new question or subject is brought up, go around the group and give everyone 15 uninterrupted seconds to give their opinion.  Obviously that one hint isn&#8217;t the full extent of how to run a meeting, but I hope you see what I&#8217;m saying.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeanne Boyarsky		</title>
		<link>https://www.selikoff.net/2014/09/14/expertise-conference-for-women-developers/comment-page-1/#comment-111229</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeanne Boyarsky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.selikoff.net/?p=5273#comment-111229</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.selikoff.net/2014/09/14/expertise-conference-for-women-developers/comment-page-1/#comment-111168&quot;&gt;Andrew Monkhouse&lt;/a&gt;.

Andrew: Yes. in the US, women are brought up to be quieter. Not as much in Asia, but still quieter than boys. You are rewarded for being a &quot;good girl&quot; and not causing trouble. There&#039;s also the problem that it&#039;s a lot of effort to &quot;speak over the guys&quot; when they are speaking loudly. On my team, I raise my hand high when that happens. My team respects me enough that they will give me the floor when I do that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.selikoff.net/2014/09/14/expertise-conference-for-women-developers/comment-page-1/#comment-111168">Andrew Monkhouse</a>.</p>
<p>Andrew: Yes. in the US, women are brought up to be quieter. Not as much in Asia, but still quieter than boys. You are rewarded for being a &#8220;good girl&#8221; and not causing trouble. There&#8217;s also the problem that it&#8217;s a lot of effort to &#8220;speak over the guys&#8221; when they are speaking loudly. On my team, I raise my hand high when that happens. My team respects me enough that they will give me the floor when I do that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrew Monkhouse		</title>
		<link>https://www.selikoff.net/2014/09/14/expertise-conference-for-women-developers/comment-page-1/#comment-111168</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Monkhouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2014 18:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.selikoff.net/?p=5273#comment-111168</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re &quot;[not] as good a developer because they didn’t start coding when they were 12 or code for fun&quot;

When talking to developers whom I admire, a common theme seems to arise: they code for fun (or, at least, used to - some have since given up on coding in their spare time). Many of them (not all) also started young. I don&#039;t think this is coincidence - if you are passionate enough about coding to do it as a &quot;fun&quot; activity, then that passion will also follow into your work life. But for those of whom coding is a &quot;chore&quot; that is only done when being paid for it, then the chances are good that they will end up being a code monkey.

The whole confidence aspect is interesting - I&#039;ve also noticed that Americans tend to favor the loudest voice - it is something that I have to work on, since I tend to talk quietly unless I am deliberately projecting. I would be curious to find out whether women are brought up to be &quot;quiet / demure ladies&quot; and therefore are not the loudest voice in the room, which would come across as lack of confidence?

Re: &quot;I was given the advice to record what I accomplish throughout the year so I remember it when it is appraisal time&quot; - I also heard that many years ago, and I have passed it on to many of my colleagues / employees. It is amazing how much that can do for your career when your boss is looking at a laundry list of things you&#039;ve accomplished, versus trying to remember what your coworkers have done. :-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re &#8220;[not] as good a developer because they didn’t start coding when they were 12 or code for fun&#8221;</p>
<p>When talking to developers whom I admire, a common theme seems to arise: they code for fun (or, at least, used to &#8211; some have since given up on coding in their spare time). Many of them (not all) also started young. I don&#8217;t think this is coincidence &#8211; if you are passionate enough about coding to do it as a &#8220;fun&#8221; activity, then that passion will also follow into your work life. But for those of whom coding is a &#8220;chore&#8221; that is only done when being paid for it, then the chances are good that they will end up being a code monkey.</p>
<p>The whole confidence aspect is interesting &#8211; I&#8217;ve also noticed that Americans tend to favor the loudest voice &#8211; it is something that I have to work on, since I tend to talk quietly unless I am deliberately projecting. I would be curious to find out whether women are brought up to be &#8220;quiet / demure ladies&#8221; and therefore are not the loudest voice in the room, which would come across as lack of confidence?</p>
<p>Re: &#8220;I was given the advice to record what I accomplish throughout the year so I remember it when it is appraisal time&#8221; &#8211; I also heard that many years ago, and I have passed it on to many of my colleagues / employees. It is amazing how much that can do for your career when your boss is looking at a laundry list of things you&#8217;ve accomplished, versus trying to remember what your coworkers have done. 🙂</p>
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